There’s been a very interesting discussion happening in the comments on my post back on Monday 5th Sept. I thought I’d draw your attention to it, so you can contribute your 2c worth (and also cuz it’s a pain to scroll down all the time).

The discussion was about predestination - but not your average, deep, theological debate - it was on BGR! I’ll just cut ‘n’ paste (with minor edits) for your perusal.

Someone said that you don't need to worry about who you're gonna go out with, cause God has already chosen someone for you.

What do you reckon?

~Emz~ said...
Well technically we shouldn't be worrying about anything at all! :P
6/9/05 9:45 PM

Ernie said...
Hahaha...yes, so true.

Ok, wrong choice of words perhaps. Do we need to do anything to find the right bf/gf? Or not, since it's already chosen for you?
6/9/05 11:17 PM

Phil said...
Need to do the hard yakka I believe. If everything's planned, I guess I'd let that CEO job come to me. Not that I'm comparing a bf/gf with a job. Orrr am I?
8/9/05 2:00 AM

Ernie said...
Jobs and bf/gf...hmm...well, the hard yakka bit is sure true! Girls...I mean relationships, are hard work.

But if we're working hard to find the right person, where does God fit into the picture?
8/9/05 7:51 AM

kitzetic said...
we're kinda short on experiences..^^ i guess it depends on your attitude?
8/9/05 8:38 PM

Ernie said...
How much of our understanding of predestination can be based on experience?

Is experience the only way to learn about BGR?

What is the right attitude?

Food for thought...
8/9/05 9:29 PM

m said...
i would agree with Phil. You've gotta work for it. If that wasn't the case, i'd just sit here and wait for my 100 UAI. That's the harsh reality of life. Working hard and having the right attitudes gives God more choice on what he can do for you and opens up possibilties for your future paths. However, when life looks grim, God still has his plans, but you gotta work your way around with what you've got at hand.
8/9/05 10:30 PM

Ernie said...
So if u dun work hard, does that limit God in what he can do?
8/9/05 10:36 PM

m said...
Well, in terms of logic- yes. In God's terms- Who knows?
8/9/05 10:42 PM

Ernie said...
If what we do limits what God does, then he can God still predestine things?
8/9/05 10:47 PM

Phil said...
God has planned out everything, we are never out of his plans. I understand that much.

To m's comments regarding giving God more choice if we have the right attitude and work ethic. I think the concept of us doing things or being a certain way determines the "choices" God has, makes God seem so ... powerless? Perhaps it's the other way around? We make the choices, God has done everything and is God the planner.
9/9/05 12:41 AM

m said...
this is utterly confusing!

anyway, so God "planned" us to rebel against him, even though he wanted perfection (or did he?).
9/9/05 4:19 PM

Ernie said...
ahhh...now we're getting into the complexities of the issue...

It's confusing, but you're actually progressing along nicely. =D
9/9/05 4:24 PM

kitzetic said...
i think predestination is sorta both ways...like the dual side rungs of a ladder. You can't have choice without predestination...like God knows and decides and plans what we do yet at the same time, we also have a choice.

in terms of relationships, I guess God knows what is best for us, like he has this perfect guy in mind and we'll just take it as it comes. That doesn't mean we chase after every guy but at the same time it isn't like apathy. It depends on our attitude coz it shoudln't belike i need a guy just coz its cool and everybody has one.
9/9/05 6:28 PM

m said...
good analogy. But, we can't exactly make any
"choice" if the plan is already made for us by God. Can we go out of God's plan?
10/9/05 9:57 PM

kitz said...
i've got a question...

when we say God's plan, is it his active planning of sequence of events or is it just his prior knowledge that these things will happen?
10/9/05 10:17 PM

Ernie said...
This is getting more and more interesting. You're all making some great comments!

Re: kitz
When the Bible talks abt predestination, what does that mean?
10/9/05 10:29 PM

M said...
where does the Bible talk about predestination specifically?
11/9/05 2:31 PM

Ernie said...
Ahhh...finally we are getting to the Bible!

For starters, try:
Acts 13:48
Rom 8:28-30
Eph 1:4-6, 11-12
1Thess 1:4-5
2Thess 2:13
1Pet 1:1; 2:9
11/9/05 5:20 PM

M said...
nice, thanks.
you should put a link to this comment place (if possible). it's getting harder to scroll down to find this post...
11/9/05 6:56 PM

Please feel free to join the discussion, even if you don't know what the answer is. We'd love to hear your opinions as well.

What a Christian guy might say to a girl...

1. Nice bible.
   
2. I would like to pray with you.
   
3. You know Jesus? Me too.
   
4. God told me to come talk to you.
   
5. I know a church where we could go and talk.
   
6. How about a hug, sister?
   
7. Do you need help carrying your bible? It looks heavy.
   
8. Christians don't shake hands, Christians gotta hug.
   
9. Oh you are cold? Read Ecclesiastes 4:11.
   
10. Did it hurt when you fell from Heaven?
    
11. What are your plans for tonight? Feel like a bible study on Song of Songs?
    
12. The Bible says "Give drink to those who are thirsty, and feed the hungry." How about dinner? (Read the original context here - Rom 12:20)
    
13. You don't have an accountability partner? Me neither.
    
14. You want to come over and watch The 10 Commandments tonight?
    
15. Is it a sin that you stole my heart?
    
16. Would you happen to know a Christian woman that I could love with all my heart and wait on hand and foot?
    
17. Nice bracelet. "Who would Jesus date?" I, I, mean "What Would Jesus Do?"
    
18. Do you believe in divine appointment?
    
19. Have you ever tried praying at a drive in movie before?
    
20. Excuse me, I believe one of your ribs belongs to me. (Reference to Gen 2:22)
    
21. My friend told me to come and meet you, he said that you are a really nice person. I think you know him. Jesus, yeah, that's his name.
    
22. We have to hold hands when we pray so the circle won't be broken. (What the...?)
    
23. God has used you to teach me what true love really is. (For real true love see 1John 4:10)
    
24. Christians kiss before parting - it's an old Jewish tradition. (Rightttt...)
    
25. No, I'm not coveting. I intend to make you mine.
    
26. I didn't believe in predestination till I met you.
    
27. I'll turn the other cheek for you, if you'll turn yours to me.
    
28. Love is patient and kind, you know. If you'll be patient, I'll be kind. (Reference to 1Cor 13:4-8)
    
29. Hey...for you I’d work seven years. Oh, yeah, and seven more for your sister! (Reference to Gen 29:15-30)
    
30. I just don't feel called to celibacy.
    
31. Paul says, "Greet one another with a holy kiss." And Peter says, "Greet one another with a kiss of love.
    
32. You have the body of Amy Grant and the soul of Mother Teresa. (Do not get this confused!)
    
33. You know, I'm really into relationship evangelism. (Baaaaad idea...)
    
34. I'm pretty flexible - I don't think a woman should be submissive on the first date. (Reference to Eph 5:21-33. But read the context!)
    
35. Just looking at you makes me feel all ecumenical.
    
36. I hear there's going to be a love feast tonight.
    
37. Excuse me, is this pew taken?
    
38. [At church] Do you come here often?
    
39. I've prayed about it and God wants you to go out with me.
    
40. Has anyone ever told you, your eyes are like doves and your neck like the tower of David?
    
41. I don't speak in tongues, but I kiss that way. (Eww...)
    
42. I'd pick you over Satan any day.
    
43. An honest answer is like a kiss on the lips...and baby, I never lie.
    
44. [Check her shirt tag] Just as I thought...Made in heaven.
    
45. Hey, need a ride to church?
    
46. God was showing off when he made you.
    
47. Do you think "Ask and it will be given to you" is to be taken literally?
    
48. You are the answer to my prayers.
    
49. I need a helper. Can you give me a hand? (Reference to Gen 2:18)
    
50. I practice our mission to "love each other deeply" to the fullest extent.
    
51. How do you feel about "It is more blessed to give than to receive"?
    
52. When I saw you, I knew the true meaning of "Rejoice and be glad."
    
53. Let me pay you my debt of love. (Reference to Rom 13:8)
    
54. I didn't know angels flew this low.
    
55. If Eve was tempted by a fruit, then you must be my fruit. (Reference to Gen 3:6)
    
56. I must be dead and looking at the angel that is going to take me to heaven.
    
57. Rom 12:13 says, "Practice hospitality." Can I take you out to dinner?
    
58. Can I be your kinsman-redeemer? (Reference to Lev 25:25; Deut 25:5-6; Ruth 4:8-10)
    
59. "It is not good for the man to be alone." Can you keep me company?
    
60. If you married me, I wouldn't need 700 wives and 300 concubines. (Reference to 1Ki 11:3)
    
61. You wanna go clubbing? (Reference to Judg 21:19-25)
    
62. I would kill 200 Philistines for your hand in marriage...but since they don't exist anymore we can skip that little formality. (Reference to 1Sam 18:27)
    
63. All the girls of King Xerxes's beauty pageant could not compare with you. (Reference to Esther 2:1-4)
    
64. You put the "cute" back in persecution!
    
65. Honey if you love me, please give me a smile.

(Did you learn much from the Bible? Who would've thought it was so interesting!) What a Christian girl might say in response...

1. Honey I love you, but I just can't smile.
   
2. I'm sorry, I've found someone more spiritual.
   
3. I'm sorry, it's just not God's will.
   
4. I feel called to the mission field. Very soon and very far from you.
   
5. God loves me and must have a better plan for my life.
   
6. You know, I feel like I'm dating my brother.
   
7. At least I got a lot out of our Bible studies together.
   
8. I think we should just be prayer partners. (Baaad idea...)
   
9. I do love you, but it's just agape now.
   
10. I think I have the gift of singleness.
    
11. God must have someone even better prepared for you.

But from that look on her face... ...it's most likely... GET AWAY FROM ME YOU CREEP!!! See what you miss out on if you don't come to 180!!

Give thanks that we were able to learn about the Christian view of dating and relationships. Pray that we can be godly in how we relate to people of the opposite sex, and that we will seek to build our brothers and sisters up as our primary goal.

(Even if they are majorly corny, which pick-up lines did you find funny?)

Name: Zacchaeus
Address: Big house in Jericho
Height: Err...short
Occupation: Chief tax collector
Interests: Extortion, climbing trees
Comments: Shifty eyes
History: Here

One of the best subjects I'm doing this semester is Childrens' Ministry Skills. It's just all the practical stuff of doing kids' ministry - from puppetry, quick sketching, quizzes, games, memory verses, story telling...on and on.

Now you might be wondering what's a Bible college student and youth group leader doing with kids stuff. Here's a number of reasons:

• It's "free" (I can choose any number of electives as part of my course).
  
• You get free stuff in class (you can tell I'm a stingy Asian).
  
• I'm a big kid.
  
• I like creative stuff.
  
• I totally suck at creative stuff.

But above all, I reckon that this kinda stuff can be used for all age groups - even adults. Now of course, you gotta tweak it a bit. And if you've been in my 180 group this semester, you'll know that I've already been using some ideas from class in my Bible studies. Dunno what I'll do with puppets yet.

Give thanks for the children's workers out there who work hard at bringing the gospel to kids (it is not easy). Give thanks for the opportunity to learn skills that can help me to teach the Bible. Pray God can help me to adapt what I learn into my own ministries.

Finally finished the essay! Yay!!! *breathes a sigh of relief*

But...no rest for the wicked, so they say. I have an average of one essay due every two weeks from now till the end of the semester. And since I'm late for the Job essay, it's eating into my time for the other essays.

Gotta catch up!!

Sorry to disappoint, but I haven't had much to blog about lately. Still stuck with this overdue essay. I'm currently halfway, but it's really screwing up my schedule. I'm gonna keep falling behind at this rate...

Had an interesting discussion last week about predestination - but not your average, deep, theological debate - it was on BGR!

Someone said that you don't need to worry about who you're gonna go out with, cause God has already chosen someone for you.

What do you reckon?

That's what I preached on this morning from John 4:4-26. Not Gatorade, but Jesus the thirst quencher. Actually, the real title was "How to be completely satisfied." But there's no cool picture for that. :P

When I had finished my first draft on Thurs and practiced it with a friend, it wasn't too crash hot. Too long. No structure. Too propositional. My voice croaked. Tones and expressions bland...etc. So I spent Fri and Sat fixing it up (though both those days was taken up with a range of activities like the Deb Fung Concert and the Sports Night).

Generally I was quite happy with the finished product, both in terms of content and presentation. On the day, it usually comes out a little bit better because of the adrenaline. My voice held out thankfully, and the congregation was kind enough to laugh in all the right places. I was planning to put in the RICE themes for the last 2 years ("Where is the Love?" and "There's Gotta be more to Life"). Hehe...that would've been funny.

Pray for the non-Christians (and any nominal Christians) that were there today. Pray that they did not merely enjoy the sermon, but were challenged and rebuke by it in such a way that they will turn in faith and repentance to the Lord Jesus.

It was really good that Phil and Dennis came for a surprise visit. They are 2 of the guys from my last church. We became good friends over the 3 years that I was there. They remembered that I was preaching today and came to encourage me. Thanks guys!! =)

Give thanks for this friendship that God has given me. Pray for these 2 guys that they will continue to grow and mature as men of God. They are both studying, but very eager to serve God and to see his kingdom grow.

Now...back to that 3,000 word essay worth 40%...

The Deb Fung Concert last night went well. Nice singing and testimony from Deb. A good turn out, with many of the non-Christians from last week coming back. I think some of them are coming to church this Sun and next Fri. Photos can be found here.

Pray that the newcomers will be interested in studying the Bible and asking questions that will help them to come to know the Lord Jesus. Pray also that we can be welcoming to them and help them to settle in.

As you can see from the "Coming Up" section on the right, I have an OT essay due - YESTERDAY! And I haven't STARTED yet! But I did manage to get an extension cuz I was sick. Though that does push my schedule back for all my other essays (which are all quite hard).

I have Research Week starting Monday, which means no lectures, and instead we're meant to do research for our assignments. Usually, I sleep in a lot and find various ways to procrastinate. But I can't afford to do that next week. Must catch up!

Pray for discipline and concentration as I study God's Word.

Tonight ND is having a pre-evangelistic sports night @ Thornleigh. Normally there's a group that goes there every Sunday night for basketball, badminton and table tennis (I've been going along recently). But tonight we have volleyball!! Yay! It's one of my favourite sports, mainly cuz it's one of the few that I actually know how to play.

Pray that non-Christians will see this as a non threatening event that they can come along to, and to meet Christians who are just as "normal".

I really should blog about these things earlier so people can pray about it. D'oh!